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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  January 2, 2019 3:00pm-4:01pm PST

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♪ you can find it on the meet the press social media. it will be up until the shutdown is over and the camera is restored or until you simply find it unbearable. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more mtp daily. the beat with ari melber starts now. we haven't had a hand off in a while. >> what if we don't want to find it? >> you don't have to go look. that's the beauty of it. >> choice. >> choice. you have a remote control you can change the channel now if you wanted to. >> i don't know why you would be baiting people to change the channel now that you're done with your show. >> this has been one way to start the year. >> happy new year. i look forward to so many more of these. >> cheers. all right.
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welcome to the beat. tonight does mark washington's first day back from holidays and it's 12th day of this trump shutdown. nancy pelosi readying to take back the speaker's gavel and reporting of infighting between a key witness and the mueller probe. for the past two years a united republican government in washington, many newscasts would begin with the latest from the president who has a lot of power or his gop allies who ran gong congre -- congress. that all changes tonight. that changes now. the most impactful news comes tonight from a democrat and incoming speaker holding a lot of cards and outlining plan to try to re-open the government tomorrow. >> tomorrow we will bring to the floor legislation which will open up government. it will based on actions taken by the republican senate. we have given the republicans a
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chance to take yes for an answer. >> they are now feeling the heat. it is not helping the president. it is not helping the republicans to be the owners of this shutdown. >> we're asking the president to open up government. we are giving him a republican path to do that. why would he not do it? >> why? democrats also telling the white house to stop hold things like food stamps and assistance for farmers hostage. the meeting today donald trump got vague about a negotiation strategy. >> how long do you think the government will stay partially shutdown? >> could be a long time and could be quickly. could be a long time. >> is there a number below 5 billion that you might be willing to accept in order to re-open the government and get this moving forward? >> i'd rather not say it. >> how long would you keep the government shutdown? >> as long as it takes. >> the democrats will attempt to
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pass the stopgap spending bill by tomorrow evening. funding most of the government through september. then what the plan would do is separate the department of homeland security, which overseas the border and only fund that for a few weeks. the strategy there would be to re-open the government while admitting there is more negotiation to be done between the party on border issues. politically to stick republicans for the shutdown if they won't even do that. this, you may have noticed, is vintage pelosi. it's tough, crisp and seems to be outlining consequences. while donald trump has made a lot of noise about a lot of people he doesn't get along with including mitt romney. there are signs we want to show you he seems to now realize the incoming speaker has real power and he's got to deal with her. note how trump's tune has changed when dealing with pelosi or talking about her from the oval office to interviews on fox news. >> i'm not holding nancy to think but she said you'll never
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get the republicans to vote for it. >> you should not have a trump shutdown. >> a what -- you said trump. >> you have a white house. >> you stayed in washington, d.c. through christmas, through new years. we have seen nan tcy pelosi in hawaii. >> we have to have border security. a wall is part of border security. >> that the president choose to shut down the government that we have a trump shutdown as a christmas present. >> it is early in this new chapter but as you see there donald trump doing something that's rare. kipping the opportunity from a forced fed fox news question to lit back at someone while pelosi has seemed to take a page from trump's own play book, the art of the deal. remember that in that book he wrote bullies may act tough but they are really closet cowards. the only people bullies push around are the ones they know they can beat. con front a bully and in most cases he'll fold like a deck of cards. we'll get into the belpelosi
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strategy and i have a reason why this is donald trump breaking his promise on the wall. donna, you look at the lay out here. you look at incoming speaker pelo pelosi. what is the key to democrats moving the ball if donald trump continues to speak vague like he did today that this could go on forever. >> my has the landscape change. by noon tomorrow with speaker pelosi at the helm, i think what we'll see is democrats saying we're willing to put on the table way to open up the government and republicans you can take your deal or not. i think the president is going to get the full swath of the
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importance, the import of nancy pelosi's leadership. she will have a united democratic party standing behind her. >> on that point, the unity seems clear. listen to pelosi saying, look, they may negotiate on certain things but wall funding is not one of them. >> are you willing to come up and give him some of this money for the wall? >> no. >> that's the sticking point. >> nothing for the wall. we're talking about border security. >> nothing for the wall but that means -- >> we can go through this back and forth. no. how many more times can we say no. nothing for the wall. >> julian. >> the clip that you played with pelosi and schumer looked like two adults toying with a ridalin deprived teenage. there's a new sheriff in town and the new sheriff is a lot smarter than the old sheriff. they are clearly winning the war here. they are winning the blame game on the shutdown. they are winning the public
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argument about the wall. if you look at what clinton experienced in 1998 when he was facing an independent counsel, the democrats stuck with him. you're seeing republicans starting to cave. you're seeing the national security wing, mattis and kelly headed for the hills. you see the traditional republicans like romney coming out and saying the president is debasing the presidency. you're seeing a lot of cracks in the walls. these cracks have been there for a while. they are getting worse and they mean something now that you have for the first time in trump's professional life, he had to deal with an opposition who will confront him, hold him accountable and really is a lot smarter than he is. you're seeing it because this thing about serving up to trump a republican pass, the senate pass republican alternative and letting him say no to that, they're toying with him. they are getting the better of him. they're shrinking his 40% support that he has.
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it will probably shrink as a result of this. they're just toying with the president right now. they will win this fight. >> michael, you're not in a competition with julian but he did compare the president to baby who needs a toy to a ridalid aridal ridalin teenager. that's his view. you used to run the republican party. you have been independent about many things you disagree with this president on. what is your analysis on with donald trump, if nothing else fails, claims he know the deal part. he may not know the bureaucratic part. he may not understand why it takes a long time to withdraw troops and now we're learning he's backing off that. he said he knew the deal part. does this look like a guy close to getting a good deal? >> this is guy who has no idea what the deal is. he doesn't know what the good deal in front of him which was presented when the congress passed the same legislation that the house is going to pass
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tomorrow and was prepared for him to sign off on. the senate was behind it. the deal was done. then rush limbaugh and others said you don't want this deal. that's his reality. his reality is that part of the base that he still holding onto because he needs to feed them and they need to feed him. that's how sbymbiotic that's become. that's where the president is right now. >> i appreciate you introducing the concept of sybiosis this early in the hour. >> i try. >> it takes time. you're saying something i hear a lot in your town, washington. this is for the base. before donald trump i don't remember conservative members clamoring for things that would take extra tax dollars or should be paid for by another country,
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now they should be paid for americans. is that really what the large center of the republican base wants or is there a zombie trump mind meld where they go i guess mexico was supposed to pay for it but it's a good thing we'll pay for it. >> they're not looking at it in that context. the president was saying mexico will pay for the wall. he is still repeating the same mantra. they are still believing and buying this idea that's going to happen. we have gone from a wall to slats. i'm waiting for the president to come out and announce he will go with aluminum siding. this is how this thing is going to move. every step along the way that base will be with him which is why what mitt romney said was so important in creating a breaking point from this mind trap that a lot of republicans, especially in the senate, find themselves. >> mark thompson, is this any
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way to govern? >> no, it's not governing at all. one school of thought on donald trump side, the extreme conse e conservative side, i doesn't want government to function any way. they love to sabotage it in every way. >> it's like a bonus. it's not working. great. >> there's been a history of that going back to the civil war. what also is happening, netflix is discouraging people from taking the bird box challenge. that is walking around trying to function with a blind fold on. it's too late for donald trump's base. he said mexico would pay. mexico's not paying it. how can you be in denial about that if you elected someone to drain the swamp. he's saying that part of the wall is being built. there is no part of the wall being brake lighuilt. there's no slats. michael said aluminum siding.
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i think soon we'll be at aluminum foil. anything to sabotage. nancy pelosi is winning. we all know how bright she is. she's serious. she barely has to do anything. she literally can just stand still doing what she did today and say she is putting on the table tomorrow the same bills that republicans already passed. the person who is really on the hot seat is mitch mcconnell. he has to make a decision about what he's going to lead the senate republicans to do. i'm sure there's a lot of discussion now about what that is. 2020 isn't the greatest map for republicans. they've got to decide right here and now whether they will j jettison trump or ride off into the sunset. he will try to keep this up through the weekend. miller time is every friday. anything that will blunt any new information and you just gave a tease about a second story. any information or anything that comes out, he can use this to
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continue to distract his base and keep the blind fold on. >> that's a shell game of having worked in congress. in the beginning, the shutdowns do not have huge scaleable consequences. partly because the federal government is built to run in exte extenuating circumstances. we have been covering this and we will continue to do so. people will start running out of food this week. farmers by next week will lose disaster assistance. that affects a lot of people who got hit by a disaster. then take the immigration court is what donald trump wants to improve. the shutdowns paralyze the immigration courts allowing several hundred undocumented workers to dodge deportation or orders every day this continues. walk us through that context, julian. >> shutdowns generally have a party that gets blamed for it.
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the short term pain is bearable. the long term pain is unbearable. trump has already claimed responsibility for this so we're kind of past that. the biggest problem trump has is he's not making an argument that people support. people don't support the wall, generally. the public doesn't support the wall. his bigger problem is the wall is kind of an empty totem. he said he would get mexico to pay for the wall. he told the mexican president that he doesn't care about the wall. the wall will do very little about illegal immigration. if you were serious, you would deal with visa over says. you would deal with employer sanctions which is what keeps undocumented here. you would treat mexico has an ally and not as an enemy. most of the people are coming from central america. mexico has sent back over 100,000 undocumented people
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crossing into mexico to try to make it to the u.s. most of the undocumenteds are not mexicans. mexico could be an ally. anybody serious sees this as nothing more as a simple. the public doesn't support it. with him having to bear the blame and republicans, i mentioned the retirements, romney, other republicans that are showing great deal of discomfort with the fact they are being associated with a losing argument here. at some point they will crack. it's hard for me to see how trump comes out ahead. this is just a preview of a lot more to come with the democrats controlling the house right now. >> donna, your view on those points. >> i think julian is right and you're going to actually begin to see the down sides of a shutdown and it's going to become evident. on january 12th checks need to be cut to those 800,000 federal
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workers who will not have a paycheck to pay mortgages and go to the dry cleaners. all of those consumer things. you're seeing the national parks in all those western states that are really impacted. the businesses around them will be too. trump will begin to hear that affect and i think that's going to have a really important affect on senators and this is not sustainable. trump shut down will end because they have to come up with a deal that was the senate deal and get that through the house and the senate and on to the president. he'll sign it. he'll sign it. he'll sign anything. >> all eyes will be on the building behind you. thanks to each of you. : co coming up, we have fact check on why donald trump has shut down the government to break his own promise. it's important to get that right. later trump responding to what we were discussing. the attack from mitt romney and
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falsehoods about his own popularity. vladmir putin arresting an american and accusing him of being a spy. is it pay back from mueller. we're going to tell you what to expect as bob mueller kicks things up in 2019. you're watching the beat on msnbc. you may have gum disease and could be on a journey to much worse. try parodontax toothpaste. it's three times more effective at removing plaque, the main cause of bleeding gums. leave bleeding gums behind with parodontax toothpaste.
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i am a techie dad.n. i believe the best technology should feel effortless. like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. congress and the president went back to work while much of the federal government remains closed for this shutdown.
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this is having real impact. 800,000 americans missing their paychecks this week. federal offices that provide food for the hungry are now closed. key disaster assistance programs put on hold leaving 250,000 americans who fled those fires in thousands oaks in california now without help. and as the government shutdown grinds on, the stock market has seen the worst drops in a decade. this shutdown is a drag on the economy. it's hurting hundreds of thousands of americans. we have seen these effects in prie previous shutdowns but this is different than every other shutdown recorded in modern era. when presidents drew lines in each of those years to defend their positions on taxes or health care or spending. this is the first time a president has shutdown the government not to defend a pledge but to break a pledge. just stop there and consider how
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bizarre this is. tomorrow, a new congress begins and its first business is dealing with a president shutting down the government to break his own campaign pledge. let's be clear about this. donald trump promised americans they would never pay for the wall because mexico would pay. then he failed to get that money from mexico despite two years when his party controlled washington. trump shuts down the government to break his pledge and try to make americans pay for the wall. believe me, this is not how it was supposed to go. >> believe me, mexico's paying for the wall. >> if i win, if i become president, mexico will pay for the wall. >> mexico will pay for the wall. they will pay for the wall. that i can tell you. >> mexico's going to pay for the wall. they don't know it yet. they're starting to have a very good idea. >> mexico's going to pay for the wall and they'll be happy to do it. >> they were not happy to do it.
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mexican officials past and present shut trump down. >> i declare, i'm not going to pay for that [ bleep ] wall. he should pay for it. >> mexico will not pay for the [ bleep ] wall. >> clear enough for you. diplomacy. since 2015, donald trump has been pushing the idea that he was going to get mexico to pay for the wall. now, he says he'll take on the mantle for demanding border funding and make you pay for it. >> this is a wall that's going to work. mexico will pay for it because they are not doing us any favors. >> this was day two of the partial government shutdown over the president's demand for border wall funding. >> i am proud to shut down the government for border security. i will take the mantle. i will be the one to shut it
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down. >> mexico will pay for the wall. these politicians come up and say you don't really mean mexico will pay. we will have mexico pay for that wall. you know what, if i'm wrong about this, you're going to all come back, we'll have another meeting and i'll apologize. >> we're talking about complete. a lot has already been done. the 5 billion, 5.6 billion approved by the house is such a small amount compared to the level of the problem. we give money to countries but we don't give money to our own country. >> trump failed. he didn't pull off the deal. he didn't apologize to hannity. he turned from pressuring mexico from pesos to pressuring the u.s. for dollars. making this shutdown a bizarre public exercise in breaking his promise. if trump re-opening the public without wall funding this was a waste of time and if trump re-opens the government with any u.s. wall funding, that is a violation of his pledge from his view. if it sounds like that doesn't make sense, it's because it doesn't make sense.
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yet this very clear logic has escaped all kinds of pundits and politicos because you may have heard this common claim that the shutdown that breaks trump's promise is actually trump's standing by his promise. >> his base is right. this is an essential promise he's made and the white house said this is an essential promise. >> i applaud the president for standing firm on a major campaign promise that he said that he would get the wall built. >> he's made clear this is a campaign promise. he's not going anywhere on it. >> he's not pander. it's what he believes in. it's what he ran on. >> it's not what he ran on. it's the total and complete violation of what he ran on which is mexico funding the wall. even as trump breaks his wall promise, he continues to blame he's putting america first by getting other countries to meet their obligations from boots on the ground to picking up the
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tabs as he told our troops. >> we're not the suckers of the world. we're no longer the suckers, folks. people aren't looking at us as suckers. we're respected again as a nation. >> you can see the classic blending of reality and perception. trump declares we're not suckers and we're not looked at as suckers. on the wall whether you think we should build one or not we're looking at people marveling into trump punishing his own country after failing to get a peso from mexico. it's easy to see how who pays for something can impact its populari popularity. if politicians offer to help free crossing guards, the plan will be more popular than a plan to raise your taxes by a thousands dollars for the same crossi ining guards. the first you don't have to think about.
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the second makes you think is that worth the money. conservatives say they don't oppose plan like health care but they oppose the taxes. trump flipped that. he promised this wall at no cost. this came naturally to donald trump. his entire career was built on selling the hoax of something for nothing. from casinos that went out of business to trump university that went out of business to gold plated real estate pitches that went out of business. now today we have this same pattern weaponized and super sized. instead of casinos shutting downen, the federal government is shutdown. instead of trump runners from bankers, he's running from mexico and trying to pass on that bill to the american taxpayer. we all know someone like this. a scrub who runs up the tab and when the bill comes, all of a sudden they are acting dumb. beyonce diagnosed that type of person in the classic "bills,
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bills, bills" by destiny child. can you pay my bills. can you pay my telephone bills? do you pay my automobile bills? if you did then maybe we could chill. we can't chill. donald trump didn't pay his bills in business. he repeatedly stiffed people and passed the buck. he's famous for those headlines. trump's not paying the bill he promised mexico would pay and now he wants to pass the buck to the american taxpayer. there's not much debate left here. every time you think about this shutdown or talk to anyone about this shutdown or watch the new congress deal with it tomorrow. remember, we know trump broke his promise because he told us. we know he shut down the government to keep breaking that promise because he told us. we know trump is wrong right now in every day of this shutdown because he told us that too. >> we will have mexico pay for that wall. you know what, if i'm wrong about this, you're going to all
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come back. we'll have another meeting and i'll apologize to you. we'll havd i'll apologize to you. i like chillaxin'.
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mitt romney becomes senator romney and there's new indications that might be a nightmare for trump. romney released an op-ed calling president trump thoughtless, saying he lacked honesty and integrity. causes dismay around the world and stokes the politics of anger and fear. he goes on to say trump is not risen to the mantle of the office. the romney trump relationship has been complex. you may recall that romney first came out against trump during 2016 saying he was a fraud and phony. after trump won they dined together over frog legs and talked about cabinet jobs. here was romney's response today. >> after he elected president, it was very much my hope that he
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would rise to the occasion, rise to the mantle of the office. becoming president of the united states is quite an elevation for anybody. he said during the campaign that he could be extraordinarily presidential. i don't think he has followed through on that front the way he's followed through on some of his other promises. >> trump has taken the bait and basically made a political theme to tack on romney's support today. >> if he fought really hard against president obama like he does against me, he would have won the election. >> one problem with that. take a look at this. the percentage of the actual vote share won in each year. trump won 46%. snapshot of support. it's not apples to apples but it's worth noting that mitt romney in his cycle actually got over 46%. he got 47% of that year's electorate and running against a pretty popular incumbent
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president. trump doesn't like these comparisons because he also got less than hillary clinton that year and then back to 2012, barack obama. if we're comparing, trump brought it up. mitt romney will be sworn in tomorrow and it will be mike pence swearing him in. i'm joined by a perfect guest for this discussion. former romney adviser mike murphy. thanks for joining me. what does it tell us that rom did th -- mitt romney did it today this way. >> i think he wanted to make it clear that his position about donald trump hasn't really changed. he wrote a similar op-ed when he announced the senate race in utah. we all know about the critiques he's made in the past. the argument he made was look, in op-ed, i don't want to be the daily commentator on how trump
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has doing but i stand where i stand. he's not risen to the office. some of his positions are risky and bad. on conservative policy i agree with, i'll support him. mitt is being mitt and trump better get used to it. now he's in the senate and as we say in politics, a fact of life. >> you're arguing this is all the inner romney, the pure position that he holds but you and i both know he's also moved around on trump. he took the endorsement and i thought jake tapper did a good job pressing that point. >> he was endorsing me. i wasn't endorsing him. i haven't decided who i will endorse in 2020. i made a lot of mistakes. i'll let people make the
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assessment of which were the mistakes or not. >> isn't the problem he said he didn't want this kind of negotiation and he was in utah. he didn't need to take the endorsement. >> you don't really eject an re endorsement. he didn't seek it. i think his answer is appropriate and true. the president tweets out i've endorsed you. you let it pass and keep going. i think mitt made it pretty clear he hasn't offered any endorsement. we'll see what happens in the future. people can quibble around the edges that romney is not pure enough in his criticism of president trump. he's been a leader in this from t beginning and i think it's commendable what he did today because the daeafening silence from too many people in the republican party is depressing. >> i think that's fair. >> i think he's doing the right thing and hopefully he will inspire others.
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>> yn yi know you are. what does it tell you that th d standard bearers of the party, whoever you think of mitt romney did have higher support of trump in recent years. the late great mccain who you worked for was a nominee and then you have the former presidents that all of them have been coming out and trying to remind everyone that donald trump doesn't reflect everything that the republican party was or should be. >> more power to the ones who had the bravery to do it. aye been around politics a long time. while i don't like it, i do understand it. when bill clinton was running around the oval office with his pants off, i didn't see a lot of especial op-eds from the democratic senators. this will be the year of republican party coming to reckon with what they've got in
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trump presidency. things are getting worse, not better. he cost us the midterms and the house majority. we'll either see the light and do the right thing or not. that's on us. i think it will be a blockbuster year. >> would it be a good thing for the republican party and america if trump got a challenge in the primary? >> yeah, i think -- yes. i think it would be a good thing for the country. long term for the party. the reality of the politics, we have to see where things are at the end of the summer. it's too early for that to be thought through. >> mike murphy, ben theren there that, joined us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. i want to give you programming note. rachel has the interview in the country tonight as far as politics is concerned. you may have seen the new york times announcing her can ddidac.
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we're excited to watch that. ahead, this is a weird one. a sudden and mysterious arrest of an american citizen in moscow. is the kremlin trying to send a message to bob mueller? as the go we'll get into it and why roger stone is beefing with jerome corsi. with jerome corsi. ics say is number one in the nation? sure, they probably know what they're talking about. or the one that j.d. power says is highest in network quality by people who use it every day? this is a tough one. well, not really, because verizon won both. so you don't even have to choose. why didn't you just lead with that? it's like a fun thing. (vo) chosen by experts. chosen by you. get six months apple music on us. it's the unlimited plan you need on the network you deserve. now buy the latest galaxy phones, get galaxy s9 free. ito take care of anyct messy situations.. and put irritation in its place. and if i can get comfortable keeping this tookus safe and protected...
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are you 100% confident your brother was not a spy and had no involvement in foreign espionage? >> i'm 100% confident he's not a spy. >> hours ago russians granting to speak with wheland. russia officials providing no public evidence to support the claim that he's a spy. there are some people now, like former u.s. ambassador michael mcfall asserting that perhaps this arrest was something else.
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maybe retribution for the u.s. capture of russian agent. >> it sounds like story beholden. >> we have the author of the plot to destroy democracy. how do you view the case? >> i have the unique position of having run a school. a school for special operations personnel who were at high risk of capture of this particular subject. what we call hostile government detention? it's when a foreign government has decided to capture an american citizen and use them for leverage in a geo political game. that's what's going on here.
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a lot of ex-military personnel are very about traveling to russia because they can be arrested and used as a bargaining chip. this is clearly about getting their subcontractor spy out of hawk and taking an american citizen who was brought there and accusing him of espionage. they will have the goods. they will made up something or had recruited him thinking he was working for some other government they will keep them there until she or some other person is released. an individual who would be
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proven to be working for the united states. does that change ha should happen? >> that individual received by the u.s. amambassador. he has rights under the treaty of vienna. that has been checked off. what the russians intend to do is break this individual. they are going to make him sign a confession. the best people in that country will work him over. he's not been trained. he's not exposed to that. he is going to eventually going to sign something or say something that for the russians will look like a confession. >> you're making such claim which is based on your knowledge, you're concerned not with standing what we don't know about the individual is he could be subject to mistreatment
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there? we >> the mistreatment are really bad captive environment. that's a bad prison cell, bad food, very harsh guards, harsh lights, interrogation. not at the level we would see from north korea but interrogations that will make his life miserable. they will carry out a psychological operation. making him seem like he's a good guy who has been caught in this position and if he only signs these documents or only says these things on video, he can walk out. >> thank you for joining us on this story. we'll keep an eye on it. could will be new indictments? why does roger stone's name keep coming up? plap
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welcome back. i'm about to speak with maya wiley. think about it like this. in less than 24 hours the democrats will retake control of the house and some of the high profile of "vanity fair." the chairs of the committees who will investigate donald trump's investigations run in tandem with mueller's and already there are hints of what mueller is doing alongside the committee chairs that you see. he could reveal new details of how paul manafort, there is a status update on michael flynn's investigation in march. meanwhile we do know mueller has gotten dozens of indictments chug one from michael cohen. he is scheduled to go to prison on march 6th. but there is another person mueller has not charged, roger stone. his story about how he contacted wikileaks has repeatedly changed. mueller has combed through the
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e-mails as well as conference call us, swells what he told the house. that's the other committee chairs he mentioned and witnesses have told us on this program that mueller's team has been grilling them specificbly stone. you agreed to help roger mislead congress. >> i was telling the truthful. >> it was that roger stone. >> most of the time. they definitely got roger stone's e-mails. they asked me questions -- they asked me questions about roger and me that they would only have had roger's e-mails. >> here's what is new tonight. roger stone turning on one of those very witnesses. stone now saying he believes corsi is working with him to sandbag him.
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i am joined by a civil prosecutor in new york. you are here on your birthday. happy birthday. >> thank you. >> everyone can weigh in on that once we're gun the show. when you see roger who has changed his story before, going from backing up people like jerome coursei to publicly attacking him, what does that tell you? >> it tells us he's feeling the heat and trying to carve out some space for himself in the spin machine. what we already know is that he tried on get a cover story from jerome corsi who himself said on your show. it was about creating a different picture of e-mails they were exchanging in the summer of 2016 around julian assange and another release of e-mails. and remember, his podesta e-mail comments about podesta being the
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next one in the barrel after hillary clinton. so obviously, all this goes to the question of whether there was collusion and to what extent there was collusion. that day that julian assange, they were trying on get a meeting with ted julian. it was the day he gave an interview to rt. the russian station that is considered to be a foreign agent by the u.s. government. the exact same day that they were exchanging e-mails and trying to get information so they created the question about whether there was a pass of information at that point. so we don't know the answer. i'm not suggesting we know what the facts are but there's no question there's any range of activity with roger stone, with jerome corsi. now starting to say roger stone wanted a cover story. that tells us that roger stone is feeling the heat. in that theory of the case, why
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would he do that? >> because jerome corsi wants to protect jerome corsi. he's trying to carve out his own story of i'm not engaged in a conspiracy. i was just someone having conversations with old friends. i didn't do anything wrong but they tried to get me to do something wrong. >> or maybe he tells racist lies but not criminal lies and they are different types of lies in the eyes of the law depending. is it enough if what bob mueller ends one on the stone front is a debate with false hoods between two individuals who don't people is credible, or do you think he really needs more than false statements on stone? >> you know, it depends what he is going to charge first of all. if he is going for a perjury charge and he has e-mails that demonstrate that the facts were different from what they have
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stated, then he has enough for perjury. i think the question is whether there are other additional charges that might be coming his way. what we know is that perjury looks pretty likely. >> and i've said in fairness to roger spoken to he's exaggerated on all sorts of things. so he may have a case for a jury but i didn't mean to break the law or have criminal intent. thank you for joining us on your special day. up ahead, nancy pelosi will be getting the gavel back again. getting the gavel back again (burke) parking splat. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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it's now my privilege to present the gavel of the united states house of representatives to the first woman speaker in our history. the gentle lady from california, nancy pelosi. >> then speaker pelosi getting the gavel in 2007. the first and only woman to hold that title. tomorrow she gets it right back.
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the democrats do take control of the house and with at this time power to issue subpoenas and a whole lot more. i can tell you we'll have special coverage up and down on msnbc and the beat. you can send us any questions you have for lawrence at ari melber and we'll try to get to some of your questions. that does it for us. "hardball" starts now. no deal. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. as the partial government shutdown dragged into its 12th day today, president trump made it clear he is not down on his demand that congress fund wall. he opened the one and a half hour meeting claiming he would work with democrats before

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